Post by Ginny Potter on Jun 13, 2004 13:17:20 GMT -5
Glitter, this one goes out to you.
This is NOT mine...it is written by spiritedrinoa.
"12 Resaons H/Hr Shippers Have It Wrong"
What is it that I detest about people who support H/Hr? Everything. At least everything in regards to their shipping H/Hr.
1) "Nobody ever stays with their first love"
This of course, relates to one of the main arguments that H/Hr shippers bring up.
Tell that to my Mum and Dad. They've been married for 23 years and counting. And still very much in love, I'm proud to note. And my Uncle and Aunt.
To begin with this isn't real life anyway, and in fiction, first love often = true love
Secondly, don't make generalizations like "Never" for a real life example just because you can't name an instance of it. I just named two. And that's from personal experience.
2) "Ron and Hermione just don't understand each other."
Show me where in the text it shows that they have a blatant lack of understanding for one another.
Most of their arguments revolve around schoolwork and the house elves. Oh look, the few things that they seem to be really particularly different in.
3) R/Hr vs D/G OR "Opposites don't attract..."
H/Hr shippers tend to co ship D/G from what I've seen (with exceptions. And then they dare say that they don't thing R/Hr will work because they are both too different. What are D/G then? Ugh. I can see why people would ship R/Hr and not D/G, because D/G is obviously not canon, and would never go canon. But I don't get why people would ship D/G and not R/Hr, if you ship anyone else avidly at all. You have the same clash of personalities. You have the same dynamic of opposites. D/G is actually the more extreme version. Some people say that they like D/G because they like the good girl reforming the bad guy. Ugh. I'm sorry everyone....and I know how the D/G is played out in my RPG, but Draco would never reform in a million years. When he reforms, he's Harry, and then if you just want Reformed!Draco/Ginny, then go ship H/G.
4) General Ron Hating
This goes with #2 a bit. Ron's made out to be this horrible guy, and therefore not good enough for Hermione. They say he's too short tempered, not very considerate, yadda yadda yadda, and that he doesn't understand her. He's only 14 year's old for Christ's sake! He doesn't understand girls (or just Hermione in particular) any more or less than Harry does. If anything, he'd be slightly more understanding than Harry based on the fact that he grew up with a little sister, whereas Harry hasn't really grown up around any girls.
That's one interesting difference I find in R/Hr and H/Hr shippers. While the H/Hr shipers tend to deny any and all good qualities that Ron can have, R/Hr shippers don't rant on Harry. We don't play the 'he's simply not good enough for her' card. Sure, he's good enough for her, but there's no attraction between them. I've never once denied that Harry and Hermione understand each other. But Ron and Hermione understand each other too. As to Ron and Harry.
Also, H/Hr shippers often leave Ron singled out by his lonesome, or stick him with some horrid prize like Lavender.
5) Harry as Perfection
Of course, we all know that H/Hr would work, because they are both so very perfect.
My biggest gripe about Harry is that he's portrayed as far too perfect, far too good at everything, particularly in fanfiction, but also by JKR to a lesser degree. I think that's part of what I loved about The Serpent's Bride by Reiko on Fanfiction.net, Harry is kind of a full of himself prat, yet he does't really seem to leave character. Kudos to Reiko for making Harry more realistic. Harry is NOT perfect. He can come across that way sometimes, but most of that is due to the limited scope of it being from Harry's point of view. We don't really hear his thoughts per se, but we see enough of how people react to him, and so much focus on what he's good at, that so many people make him this infalliable character. Don't Mary-Sue him. And he often IS Mary-Sue'd in H/Hr.
6) Harry and Hermione will work because they are so alike
That is such a vanilla statement that I don't even want to tackle it, but I will...
this is in contrast to #3, the general claim being that Hermione and Ron won't work because they're too different, and Hermione and Harry will work in the long run because they're so alike. While I will grant that relationships in which the people are almost a male and female version of one another CAN work in the long run, it's not only incredibly boring for a reader, but it's also incredibly boring to be in such a relationship. Not to mention that there's such a thing as being too alike. I've been known to have many more clashes with friends/love interests/ that I had a lot of things in common with than the ones that are different from me.
"The clashes don't show up so much in Harry and Hermione's friendship, though," you say."In fact, they never fight."
I say, yes, hardly ever fight. Because they're practically never alone. There's basically three times that Harry and Hermione are alone with one another in all four books. In PS/SS, when they do the potions challenge, in PoA when Ron's leg is injured and he's in the infirmary, and in GoF when Ron and Harry have their fight. In the first two instances, they're only alone together because Ron can't be there, and in the third, Harry states:
"Harry liked Hermione very much, but she just wasn't the same as Ron. There was much hess laughter and a lot more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best friend."
Harry's downright bored when it's just him and Hermione. Yes, that sounds like a love match to me. I'm not a slash-shipper, and of all the slash ships, I detest Harry/Ron, but I would think that he and Ron will ride off into the sunset together long before Harry ever thinks about her in romantic light.
7) "Just look at all the sub-text!"
For starters...you can interpret text to mean anything you want, if you look hard enough for it. there's plenty of Harry/Ron and/or Harry/Draco evidence in the "sub-text" of the stories. So that would mean that Harry has just as much of a chance in getting together with either of them. I daresay that there's more sub-text for those two pairings than there is for H/Hr. And you don't even need to GET into sub-text for R/Hr. It's there.
Point: Harry throws his toast to the Giant Squid. "Awwwww......he's sharing his toast! they belong together!"
8) Total Disregard for Point of View
The books are written in 3rd person, with focus on Harry's perspective. We see how he feels and views the world around him. We see him think about Cho, we see him notice Ginny's crush, but from what I've seen, he's noticed Hermione as little other than a very good friend, almost a sisterly figure.
Yes, it must be love. Nothing says love like not thinking about the person...
Not to mention the fact that there's little clues that Harry actually realizes that there are feelings between R/Hr that they aren't even fully aware of, and it doesn't bother him. He seems mildly amused by it, particularly after witnessing the end of the fight in after Yule Ball.
Yes, that is our Harry, madly in love with the same girl as his best friend.
9) Repetitive Plot Devices in H/Hr fic to force its believeability
I've read H/Hr fic. Granted, I haven't read a lot of it, and granted, most of them I don't get past the first chapter, but there's reasons for that. I love Ron as much as I love Harry, and the treatment that the poor boy gets in most H/Hr fic that I've seen disgusts me. In H/Hr fic, one or more of the plot devices usually applies:
Ron is dead
Ron is totally inconsiderate
Ron is inexplicably absent from the fic
Ron is simply disincluded from the fic
10) A lack of understanding of what comes from JKR herself
Quotes from Barnes & Noble chats with JKR
Q - Is Harry Potter ever going to fall in love with Hermione or is he going to fall in love with Ginny Weasley?
A - In Book IV Harry does decide he likes a girl, but it's not Hermione or Ginny. However, he's only 14, so there's plenty of time for him to change his mind. ;-)
This girl is quite obviously Cho. "Yes, she says that he can still change his mind though! He's going to decide that he likes Hermione, JKR is hinting at it!" You scream (or well, you do if you're an H/Hr shipper and made it this far. If so, I'm betting that I'm going to get a really long comment from you about what I've said thus far, either that, I'm guessing that I sank your ship or deflated your sails.)
However, read on:
Q - Is it just me, or was something going on between Ron and Hermione during the last half of Goblet of Fire? I love your books, by the way, and two of them I've read straight through cover to cover in under 24 hours.
A - Well done on the reading speed! Yes, something's "going on," but Ron doesn't realize it yet. Typical boy.
Q - Does Hermione like Ron as more than a friend?
A - The answer to that is in Goblet of Fire!
From Isn't It Obvious
"Harry and Hermione are very platonic friends. But I won't answer for anyone else, nudge, nudge, wink, wink." - JKR, at a National Press Club Luncheon.
For those who don't understand, the phrase platonic friends, is usually a kind way of saying "There's not a snowball's chances in Hell that they'll get together romantically because they do not view each other in any romantic light."
11) "We never said that R/Hr won't ever happen! We're just saying that it won't last!"
And I'm saying that you have no hardcore evidence that
a)R/Hr won't last
b)H/Hr is even an option
12) Vanilla is boring
'nuff said
This is NOT mine...it is written by spiritedrinoa.
"12 Resaons H/Hr Shippers Have It Wrong"
What is it that I detest about people who support H/Hr? Everything. At least everything in regards to their shipping H/Hr.
1) "Nobody ever stays with their first love"
This of course, relates to one of the main arguments that H/Hr shippers bring up.
Tell that to my Mum and Dad. They've been married for 23 years and counting. And still very much in love, I'm proud to note. And my Uncle and Aunt.
To begin with this isn't real life anyway, and in fiction, first love often = true love
Secondly, don't make generalizations like "Never" for a real life example just because you can't name an instance of it. I just named two. And that's from personal experience.
2) "Ron and Hermione just don't understand each other."
Show me where in the text it shows that they have a blatant lack of understanding for one another.
Most of their arguments revolve around schoolwork and the house elves. Oh look, the few things that they seem to be really particularly different in.
3) R/Hr vs D/G OR "Opposites don't attract..."
H/Hr shippers tend to co ship D/G from what I've seen (with exceptions. And then they dare say that they don't thing R/Hr will work because they are both too different. What are D/G then? Ugh. I can see why people would ship R/Hr and not D/G, because D/G is obviously not canon, and would never go canon. But I don't get why people would ship D/G and not R/Hr, if you ship anyone else avidly at all. You have the same clash of personalities. You have the same dynamic of opposites. D/G is actually the more extreme version. Some people say that they like D/G because they like the good girl reforming the bad guy. Ugh. I'm sorry everyone....and I know how the D/G is played out in my RPG, but Draco would never reform in a million years. When he reforms, he's Harry, and then if you just want Reformed!Draco/Ginny, then go ship H/G.
4) General Ron Hating
This goes with #2 a bit. Ron's made out to be this horrible guy, and therefore not good enough for Hermione. They say he's too short tempered, not very considerate, yadda yadda yadda, and that he doesn't understand her. He's only 14 year's old for Christ's sake! He doesn't understand girls (or just Hermione in particular) any more or less than Harry does. If anything, he'd be slightly more understanding than Harry based on the fact that he grew up with a little sister, whereas Harry hasn't really grown up around any girls.
That's one interesting difference I find in R/Hr and H/Hr shippers. While the H/Hr shipers tend to deny any and all good qualities that Ron can have, R/Hr shippers don't rant on Harry. We don't play the 'he's simply not good enough for her' card. Sure, he's good enough for her, but there's no attraction between them. I've never once denied that Harry and Hermione understand each other. But Ron and Hermione understand each other too. As to Ron and Harry.
Also, H/Hr shippers often leave Ron singled out by his lonesome, or stick him with some horrid prize like Lavender.
5) Harry as Perfection
Of course, we all know that H/Hr would work, because they are both so very perfect.
My biggest gripe about Harry is that he's portrayed as far too perfect, far too good at everything, particularly in fanfiction, but also by JKR to a lesser degree. I think that's part of what I loved about The Serpent's Bride by Reiko on Fanfiction.net, Harry is kind of a full of himself prat, yet he does't really seem to leave character. Kudos to Reiko for making Harry more realistic. Harry is NOT perfect. He can come across that way sometimes, but most of that is due to the limited scope of it being from Harry's point of view. We don't really hear his thoughts per se, but we see enough of how people react to him, and so much focus on what he's good at, that so many people make him this infalliable character. Don't Mary-Sue him. And he often IS Mary-Sue'd in H/Hr.
6) Harry and Hermione will work because they are so alike
That is such a vanilla statement that I don't even want to tackle it, but I will...
this is in contrast to #3, the general claim being that Hermione and Ron won't work because they're too different, and Hermione and Harry will work in the long run because they're so alike. While I will grant that relationships in which the people are almost a male and female version of one another CAN work in the long run, it's not only incredibly boring for a reader, but it's also incredibly boring to be in such a relationship. Not to mention that there's such a thing as being too alike. I've been known to have many more clashes with friends/love interests/ that I had a lot of things in common with than the ones that are different from me.
"The clashes don't show up so much in Harry and Hermione's friendship, though," you say."In fact, they never fight."
I say, yes, hardly ever fight. Because they're practically never alone. There's basically three times that Harry and Hermione are alone with one another in all four books. In PS/SS, when they do the potions challenge, in PoA when Ron's leg is injured and he's in the infirmary, and in GoF when Ron and Harry have their fight. In the first two instances, they're only alone together because Ron can't be there, and in the third, Harry states:
"Harry liked Hermione very much, but she just wasn't the same as Ron. There was much hess laughter and a lot more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best friend."
Harry's downright bored when it's just him and Hermione. Yes, that sounds like a love match to me. I'm not a slash-shipper, and of all the slash ships, I detest Harry/Ron, but I would think that he and Ron will ride off into the sunset together long before Harry ever thinks about her in romantic light.
7) "Just look at all the sub-text!"
For starters...you can interpret text to mean anything you want, if you look hard enough for it. there's plenty of Harry/Ron and/or Harry/Draco evidence in the "sub-text" of the stories. So that would mean that Harry has just as much of a chance in getting together with either of them. I daresay that there's more sub-text for those two pairings than there is for H/Hr. And you don't even need to GET into sub-text for R/Hr. It's there.
Point: Harry throws his toast to the Giant Squid. "Awwwww......he's sharing his toast! they belong together!"
8) Total Disregard for Point of View
The books are written in 3rd person, with focus on Harry's perspective. We see how he feels and views the world around him. We see him think about Cho, we see him notice Ginny's crush, but from what I've seen, he's noticed Hermione as little other than a very good friend, almost a sisterly figure.
Yes, it must be love. Nothing says love like not thinking about the person...
Not to mention the fact that there's little clues that Harry actually realizes that there are feelings between R/Hr that they aren't even fully aware of, and it doesn't bother him. He seems mildly amused by it, particularly after witnessing the end of the fight in after Yule Ball.
Yes, that is our Harry, madly in love with the same girl as his best friend.
9) Repetitive Plot Devices in H/Hr fic to force its believeability
I've read H/Hr fic. Granted, I haven't read a lot of it, and granted, most of them I don't get past the first chapter, but there's reasons for that. I love Ron as much as I love Harry, and the treatment that the poor boy gets in most H/Hr fic that I've seen disgusts me. In H/Hr fic, one or more of the plot devices usually applies:
Ron is dead
Ron is totally inconsiderate
Ron is inexplicably absent from the fic
Ron is simply disincluded from the fic
10) A lack of understanding of what comes from JKR herself
Quotes from Barnes & Noble chats with JKR
Q - Is Harry Potter ever going to fall in love with Hermione or is he going to fall in love with Ginny Weasley?
A - In Book IV Harry does decide he likes a girl, but it's not Hermione or Ginny. However, he's only 14, so there's plenty of time for him to change his mind. ;-)
This girl is quite obviously Cho. "Yes, she says that he can still change his mind though! He's going to decide that he likes Hermione, JKR is hinting at it!" You scream (or well, you do if you're an H/Hr shipper and made it this far. If so, I'm betting that I'm going to get a really long comment from you about what I've said thus far, either that, I'm guessing that I sank your ship or deflated your sails.)
However, read on:
Q - Is it just me, or was something going on between Ron and Hermione during the last half of Goblet of Fire? I love your books, by the way, and two of them I've read straight through cover to cover in under 24 hours.
A - Well done on the reading speed! Yes, something's "going on," but Ron doesn't realize it yet. Typical boy.
Q - Does Hermione like Ron as more than a friend?
A - The answer to that is in Goblet of Fire!
From Isn't It Obvious
"Harry and Hermione are very platonic friends. But I won't answer for anyone else, nudge, nudge, wink, wink." - JKR, at a National Press Club Luncheon.
For those who don't understand, the phrase platonic friends, is usually a kind way of saying "There's not a snowball's chances in Hell that they'll get together romantically because they do not view each other in any romantic light."
11) "We never said that R/Hr won't ever happen! We're just saying that it won't last!"
And I'm saying that you have no hardcore evidence that
a)R/Hr won't last
b)H/Hr is even an option
12) Vanilla is boring
'nuff said